icarlyfandomcom-20200222-history
Talk:Cam Relationship/@comment-3096831-20100929183606
I have coppied just a few of the major points that you mentioned. In many cases you have commited logical fallicies, in fact the entire article is an Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy (assuming something is true simply because it hasnt been proven false.) In some other cases you completely left out any opposing arguments. I have coppied a few key points, there were others I assure you, and my responses will be directly under the offending passage. I will edit your comment and write my responses to the points in bold text Mak23686 20:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC) *Teachers never stick best friends together...perhaps shipping them motivates a change of heart. This is what we call a Dicto simpliciter fallacy, which is the fallacy of making a sweeing statement and execting it to be true in every specific case. My teachers used to pair me up with my best friend all the time, just because you had jerks for teachers doesn't mean everybody does. *Shelby walks up to Carly to confront her, and she immediately backs up behind Sam for protection. Sam also has an angry face on and asks, "What do you want?" this to her idol... I don't see how this is evidence for anything. The two are best friends, even thinking of each other as sisters. If I felt my brother or best friend was threatened in anyway, even by my personal idol, the offender would be lucky to escape without any broken bones. I realise this isn't true of everyone but Sam being protective of Carly in no way illustrates a romantic connection. This is a non sequitur fallacy, which is when the conclusion does not strictly follow the premisis. *Carly tells Freddie to move to the left when he is too close to her, but when Sam is standing too close to her, she isn´t bothered by it. Well this is simple, really. Sam is a female friend who doesn't pose any sexual threat to Carly, on the other hand Freddie has been openly in love with Carly for a long period of time and while your argument is possible; it is much more likely that Freddies close proximity caused her discomphort where Sams didn't. Again non sequiter. Maybe this should be moved to Nitpick (little things that don´t necessarily mean something). *Although Freddie had to sleep on the couch...Sam is comfortable sleeping in Carly's bed. Again this argument is a possibility, but it is more likely that either Carly would feel uncomphortable sharing a bed with Freddie, or Spencer wouldn't approve. Non sequiter. I actually blame that one on personal comfort, too. *While Freddie seems satisfied, even happy, Sam has a look of worry and remorse..She looks conflicted, even confused. Is it not possible that she is "conflicted" or "confused" because he has held freddie in contempt for so long and now, after kissing him, she is questioning her own oppinions on him? Not only that but even if she doesn't like Freddie this is not evidence for Cam. Non sequiter. Your explanation is possible, yes, but so is ours; this page is a list of possibilities and theories. *From just these words, Sam goes into a fit of unstoppable rage and beats up Jocelyn, forcing her to tap out and throwing her out of the shop. Same response as the "shelby" argument, but not only is this one a non sequitur it is also an Argumentum ad nauseam, which is trying to prove a point by stating the same evidence repeatedly, in this case; Sam being proctive of Carly. The point here is that Carly can CONTROL Sam and change her behaviour from a sweet girl to a wild beast and vice-versa with a single word, something noone else can do. *Carly´s reaction to Sam´s confession is far more than simple surprise; her face shows shock and she needs quite a long time to process this information before she asks "What!?" Ok, again non sequitur (you do seem to like those.) This could easily be because of the way Sam has always regarded Freddie. Would you expect simlple surprise after all of her Freddie torture? Again, this explanation is just as possible as ours. *satisfied with them promising her not to have secrets from her any more; instead, she wants to know the details about the kiss. Dicto simplictor, because you would be satisfied with the promise doesn't mean everyone would. For example, if two of my best friends kissed, just as an experiment, I would want to know if they enjoyed it. You may think I have just commited a Dicto simplicitor myself, but I did not positively state that that is what would definitely happen in any case where the third party is not attracted to either of the first two. I only offered it as a possibility for the reason of her curiosity. *Sam´s face after Carly asks if it was "fun" looks a bit as if she wants to say "Are you kidding me? look of discomphort) This soldifies the impression that Sam didn´t enjoy kissing Freddie No it doesn't, It is entirely possible that Sam doesn't want anyone to know that she likes Freddie because of her reputation, confusion about her own feelings, or simply shyness. In this case she could easily be acting to avoid the awkward questioning. Again non sequiter. Here, two lines from two episode summaries are mixed together; therefore, this point is invalid. *"I can't believe you two are really breaking up", signifying that they must have a really strong relationship, because that line is reserved for couples who date Dicto simplicitor first of all the assertion that it is reserved for couples is completely incorrect. Havent you ever heard of a band breaking up? The cast of a tv show (or web show) could "break up" in much the same way. The comment may have been made concerning the web show and not C+S friendship. *we can hear Carly scream "Sam!", not "Help!", "Spencer!" or "Freddie!" Could this possibly be because Sam was the closest person to her at the time and, therefore, the most likely to reach her in time to save her? Nah it couldn't be that simple, they MUST have some kind of lesbian affair going on. In the summaries, Friendship, Attraction and Nitpick are mixed together, so not everything there means they are attracted to each other. *They cry and hug in each other's arms, totally disregarding everyone in the room, which suggests that they are off in their own little world. Have you ever been in a life and death situation with a close friend? I myself came within a foot of being hit by a train with my friend Dan, for about 15 minutes afterward we were in total shock and barely spoke to anyone but each other. Why? Simple, noone else present knew what we were feeling at the time. The others may have been scared for our lives, but it was not their own that was on the line. I'm certainly not saying that this is definitely what happened with them but it does seem more probable than a romantic relationship. Same as before. *Carly just shouts "I kissed Freddie!", Sam is shocked Of course she's shocked, Carly spent how many years spurning Freddies futile advances? Same as before. *Carly feels uncomfortable and only tells her about the kiss when she is safe inside her apartment, fearing that Sam will hit her If anything her fearing being hit by sam may be an indicator of Carly's supposition of Sam having a romantic interest in Freddie despite her protests. As for her wanting to be inside, that could simply be because she doesnt want to be overheard. The point here is less Carly´s fear of Sam hitting her, but more Sam´s response "Have I EVER hit you?" and Carly´s answer "No.". Even Dan Schneider said in his blogs that this is something special for Sam and Carly´s relationship; as for this being friendship, same as before. *but when he asks her if she´s jealous, she responds "Gross!...be Sam hiding her feelings about Freddie; if this is true, Sam easily could've said "You wish". Just because that is what you would have said in that situation does not mean that it is what sam would say. In fact it seems more in Sams character to say gross as she seems to enjoy tormenting Freddie and "you wish" is far less detrimental to a mans ego than calling them (or the idea of liking them) "gross." It could also mean exactly what she said, but it's still not evidence of Cam. Dicto simpliciter and non sequitur. *If Sam noticed that, her answer only rules out her being jealous of Carly. It rules out nobody as per my previous argument. *"If you're in love with me, just say so", to which she sticks her tongue out and makes a whiney noise. It's interesting that Freddie always brings up Sam liking him to annoy her, yet she never reciprocates this. She also doesn't deny it, does she? Nor does she beat him up, or even insult him...she seems to be off her game, could it be that he caught her off guard and she has nothing to say back so she defaults to three year old behavior? (Keep in mind I'm not a seddie shipper, I actually like creddie, I' just demonstrating differing viewpoints on the "evidence" you have provided.) By the way, ALL of the arguments against Seddie are in no way evidence for Cam, therefor all of them are non sequiturs, just putting that out there so I dont have to keep repeating myself after every anti Seddie comment. It COULD be, emphasis on the use of the subjunctive form of the word. *She compliments Carly when she comes out wearing the dress, and answers "Hooott!" after Carly asks how she looks A friend, especially a female friend who are in general much more open about this sort of thing, cant tell another friend of the same sex that they look good without having their sexuality put in question? Again, Friendship, Attraction and Nitpick are mixed in the summaries to get an overall picture of an episode. *a Spam reference easily gets bashed for being pedophilia Actually thats just completely WRONG. The show is set in seattle washington, in washington the legal age of consent is set at 16 years of age, look it up. As sam was born on April 17, 1994 this makes her 16, and completely legal. No pedo. iCarly is shown worldwide; in some countries, the age of consent is 17 or 18; we have to consider viewers in those countries, too. *Carly for her part, asks about Sam's crush, which neither Freddie nor Spencer do I think that everything on this list was non sequitur...sure it is possible that its because she is attracted to Sam, however, it is also possible that she was curious because it was he best friend...and her brother in question. It was really none of Freddies business to begin with and Spencer could easily have felt to awkward to comment. Emphasis on the word POSSIBLE. Thanks for your time. Hope to see your responses soon!